Quote# 141663

[On the Duggars]

Most families don't continue to have children after being unable to protect their existing kids from sexual abuse.

Wrong. Most families take no action at all to protect their kids from sexual abuse by family members. Strangers they'll get all mama and papa bear on, but when it's within the family the reaction is almost always denial or lame attempts to keep them separated. "Don't ever leave the kids alone with Uncle Jim! You know how he is!"

Most families don't go on national television and present themselves as perfect families with this kind of shit in their closet.

Most families don't go on national TV, but most families who are well regarded in their community have secrets.

Most families don't run around on television telling grown women they shouldn't be allowed access to birth control or that gays stink.

Which has nothing to do with sexual abuse. Liberal families have sexual abuse problems too.

And for the eleventeenth time, WE HAVE NO IDEA IF THE ABUSE WAS SHORT LIVED. We don't know shit about the abuse. We don't know when it stopped or if it is still going on. The Duggars are bunch of badly educated dumb shits with too many kids and tiny little brains. Why the hell should we believe a word they say?

It's certainly possible that Josh Duggar is a very sick man who will always be a sexual offender. And when there's evidence that this is the case, I'll believe it.

They don't seem like a happy brood. They seem like a group of really dumb people with an idiotic belief system that encourages sexism, overpopulation, homophobia and deliberate ignorance. Jim Bob Duggar makes disgusting excuses for sexual abuse. Michelle Duggar talks like a five year old and refuses to educate her own kids properly. Her daughters sound like the kind of morons who want to join ISIS or the Westboro Baptist Church. Her eldest son is a pedophile and a sanctimonious asshole with a GED and an over inflated sense of importance.

It is deeply disturbing to see how many foolish people still blindly support them.

Sounds like part of your issue is their belief system. Fine, so show me a more liberal, secular family that handled sexual abuse within their family in a more productive way

Adaher, The straight dope 11 Comments [12/24/2018 11:24:04 AM]
Fundie Index: 4

Quote# 141662

So, it goes back to minimizing, denial, victim blaming, scapegoating and whitewashing. So, so gross. With much more to be said about the apologists than is getting mention.

That's the problem with your analysis though. There hasn't been any victim blaming. THe Duggars took the accusations seriously rather than resorting to denial, which is unfortunately what most families do in that situation.

It's certainly fair to say the Duggars should have done something else, but until someone can show me a real world example of a family handling it better than the Duggars did, I'm not inclined to judge them harshly. The vast bulk of situations like these are allowed to go on forever with no intervention from the family. At best, the problem is usually ignored, at worst the victim is blamed or called a liar.


I also see a lot of criticism of the Duggars' "fundie cult", but it seems to me that their cultish moral values are what led to them believing the accusers rather than trying to deny or blame the victim. When you believe that we're all sinners, ruled by desires of the flesh, it's easy to believe that your son can do horrible things. Whereas non-religious families often seem to be under the impression that their kids can do no wrong.


And again, it sounds to me like that was done. Most sexual abuse cases I've seen it's ongoing for as long as the victim lives with the perp and the family is forever broken because of it. The Duggars seem like a happy brood, relatively unaffected by what was a very short-lived problem.

Again, show me a family that did a better job. Most families do a lot worse

Adaher, The straight dope 7 Comments [12/24/2018 11:23:19 AM]
Fundie Index: 4

Quote# 141661

Then you are special. In practice, the response to sexual abuse is nearly always to try to handle it within the family, or organization, whatever the case may be.

Also, while there is a lot of merit to taking such issues to the legal system, which can use experts to attempt to get at the truth, it's also outsourcing parental duties to the state, which is not really kosher either. When one kid beats another up, how many parents go to the police to get their kids charged with assault? I realize that sex crimes cause even more moral revulsion, but it's still something parents should handle when it's their children, if they can. If they can't, or won't, then the police should get involved. And I'd say the same thing about non-sexual assault too.

Ah, yes. The very parents who enabled the sexual molestation should handle it.
The little fuck committed a crime and got away with it due to his parents covering it up.

They covered it up from the legal system. They did take steps to end the abuse and by all accounts they did end the abuse.

Unless you've hauled your kid into the station for hitting a sibling, you believe in this method too. 99.9% of parents do not involve the legal system when a child assaults another child, whether physically or sexually. This is not a problem, this is what parents are supposed to do. It's a problem when the parents are unable to effectively deal with the situation, which is alas very common. But the Duggars handled it better than most families in their situation. In my experience, most families stigmatize the victim, accuse them of lying, or do ineffective things like try to keep them separated, which is not really possible when you live together. Stuff that rises to the level of what Josh did are a lot more common than you think. The court system would be inundated if we turned in every child who touched another child inappropriately.

If your 15-year-old neighbor admitted to molesting your five-year-old (son or daughter) on multiple occasions, what would your response be? Would it be "boys will be boys LOL!" Because if that's your reaction, you need to go to jail too.

It's funny how suddenly 15-year-old kids are so innocent and child-like. I wish black boys could catch the same break.

Kids get away with things all the time. We'd all have juvenile records if we were sent to the police for every crime we committed.

When kids misbehave, the answer isn't to get the government involved, it's to teach them to behave themselves. The Duggars did that.

Adaher, The straight dope 5 Comments [12/24/2018 11:22:47 AM]
Fundie Index: 2

Quote# 141653

A rural Alabama police department has taken to Facebook to blame its recent spike in homicides on young people who have “embraced Satan.”

On Tuesday, the Opp Police Department shared a Facebook post, saying that the recent homicides in the area are because young people “have turned away from God” and “embraced Satan” and that it’s time to “ask for God’s help to stop this.” The Facebook post was in response to two gunshot killings in two days in Covington County, near the Alabama-Florida state line.

According to Al.com, the post — which has since been deleted — read: “THIS PAST SUNDAY, A YOUNG MAN WAS SHOT AND KILLED IN KINSTON. MONDAY NIGHT, A MOTHER WAS SHOT AND KILLED IN NORTHERN COVINGTON COUNTY. THERE HAVE BEEN FIVE MURDERS IN COVINGTON COUNTY IN 2018. THESE MURDERS HAVE BEEN DONE BY OUR YOUNG PEOPLE. THIS IS HAPPENING BECAUSE WE HAVE TURNED AWAY FROM GOD AND EMBRACED SATAN. WE MAY HAVE NOT MEANT TO DO SO BUT, WE HAVE. IT IS TIME TO ASK FOR GOD’S HELP TO STOP THIS. IT IS TIME TO BE PARENTS AND RAISE OUR CHILDREN, NOT HAVE THEM RAISE US. IT IS TIME TO FULLY SUPPORT LAW ENFORCEMENT AND STAND BY THE OFFICERS AND DEPUTIES THAT ARE FAR TOO OFTEN HAVING TO WALK INTO THESE DANGEROUS SITUATIONS AND CLEAN UP THE MESS. FRIENDS, IT IS TIME TO STAND UP AND BE RESPONSIBLE, GROWN UP LEADERS IN OUR COMMUNITY. BOTTOM LINE, THERE ARE SHEEP; THERE ARE WOLVES AND THERE ARE SHEEP DOGS. WHICH GROUP DO YOU BELONG TO?”

Opp Police Department, Yahoo! News 10 Comments [12/24/2018 11:21:23 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Doubting Thomas

Quote# 141563

Once again same-sex marriage has come into the news this week, with the recent release of The Nashville Statement. This statement has been put together in the states, with some very-well known names backing it as signatories. Names like John Piper, D.A. Carson, Darrell Bock, J.I. Packer, Vaughn Roberts, Sam Allberry, and much more. This document is an important to look at, as it gives a bit of insight to what many prominent evangelical church leaders make of this issue. Needless to say, this document is a highly important one to look at.

In this article, we will cover the various articles included in the statement. We will investigate each of the 14 articles, and see whether they line up with scripture or not.

N.B. Can I encourage everyone who reads this article to read the statement and their preamble.

The Fourteen Articles
As noted there are 14 articles in all in this declaration. Each of the articles affirms one thing denies another and those two things are linked.

The first article centers around marriage. Stating that God has designed to be between one man and one woman. The next article focuses on sex before marriage, stating that God’s will is for sex to only occur within the marriage bed. The third article focuses on a view of marriage known as complementarianism, stating that God created Adam and Eve as equal in the eyes of the Lord, but different in role and purpose. Up next is the third article, which continues along the thread started in article two. This third article states that Adam and Eve were created equal in value in God’s eyes, but different in roles and purpose. The fourth article is next which continues the theme of the third article, stating that these divinely ordered differences were God’s intention from the dawn of creation.

We then move on to the fifth and sixth article, which starts to look at sexual identity. The fifth article says that the group who put this statement together believe that the physical is a key part of God’s plan for our lives. Article seven states that if you happen to be born with a physical disorder of sex development you are still welcome to love and serve the Lord.

Next, we move on to a section of articles focusing on sexual identity and attraction. Article seven states that our sexual self-conception (another way of sexual identity), should be defined in God and how He has made us. Adopting a self-conception that runs contrary to this is not Godly. The eighth article says that those who experience same-sex attraction can still live rich Godly lives, but that same-sex attraction is not part of God’s design or plan for one’s life. Article nine is an article which says that sin distorts sexual desires by directing them away from marriage covenant (one man and one woman), and instead leads them to sexual immorality. This distortion is true for anyone they say, heterosexual and homosexual. The article does also say that an enduring pattern of desire for sexual immorality justifies acting upon it.

Article ten then leads us into a section about how we as Christians should respond when confronted with this issue. The tenth article starts it is sinful to approve of homosexual immorality or transgenderism, and affirming such immoral sexual desires is a major departure from true Christian faithfulness and witness. The article also says that the approval of sexual immorality is not just a difference of opinion. The eleventh article that our duty as Christians is to speak the truth in love at all times, including when we speak to each other as male and female. Article twelve states very openly that God gives the mercy and the power that can lead a follower of the Lord to put to death sinful desires and to walk in a manner that is worthy of the Lord. Article twelve denies that the grace of God is insufficient to forgive all sexual sins. Article thirteen really caps off this section well by saying that the grace of God is powerful enough to allow people to forsake their transgender self-conceptions and to come to accept the God ordained link between one’s biological self, and their self-conception as male and female.

The fourteen articles then conclude with the article that states that Jesus Christ came into the world to save the world the world through His death and resurrection and to forgive our sins. The article also clearly says that salvation is available to everyone who repents of their sin in Christ alone as their Lord and Saviour.

My Thoughts on the Fourteen Articles
I have to be honest here, I agree wholeheartedly with everything that has been stated in these fourteen articles in the Nashville statement. They are grounded well in Biblical truth and are upfront and honest about the issue at hand. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the Bible is clear about this subject. So much so that even Jesus Christ states that homosexuality is immoral. The Jesus side of this can be complex, so I won’t go into that in this article, but I will put it together in an article and release that some point soon.

This subject is a very sticky subject and is one that needs to be handled with grace and truth. Notice the two go hand in hand. God calls us to love our brothers and sisters in Christ. And the question will always be one to raise, what’s more loving, to not tell someone that what they are doing is dishonouring to God, or to tell them? I can’t turn around and say it’s the former, it’s most definitely the latter. If I’m about to drink alcohol (I use this illustration because I can’t), I’d want those who are around me at the time to tell me not to, why? Because the results for me if I do are not worth doing it for. The same principle applies for sin in our lives that we willfully commit. There is a big difference between making a mistake which is sinful and choosing to act in a way that is.

So I have to say, honestly, I agree 100% with this statement, and the articles included. But what about you, what do you think? I’d love to hear your thoughts.

Mark Jones, Theology Review 9 Comments [12/24/2018 11:20:37 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: CC

Quote# 141660

Video shows Pakistan minister vow ‘full support’ to terror chief

Leaked footage, showing Interior Minister Shehryar Afridi promise 'full support' to UN-designated terrorist Hafiz Saeed and his groups, expected to create trouble for Imran Khan govt

A video clip surfaced on Monday showing Pakistan Interior Minister Shehryar Afridi promising “full support” to UN-designated terrorist Hafiz Saeed, founder of Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) and mastermind of the 2008 terrorist attacks in Mumbai.

The video shows Afridi sitting with members of the Milli Muslim League (MML), a body affiliated with the LeT, reassuring that the group would be protected by the Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf (PTI).

“Allah willing, as long as we are in the Assembly, we will support Hafiz Saeed and anyone who follows the righteous path. This is our faith,” Afridi is seen as saying.

His comment came in response to the MML leaders expressing concern about the US sanctioning the group as a terrorist organization. Also its struggles to get registered as a political party in Pakistan.

“You should come [and] join us in the assembly and see whether we’re on the right path or not… We aren’t even worth the dirt on your feet,” the minister adds in the video.

The video surfaced two months after a team from the Asia-Pacific Group in the Financial Action Task Force (FATF), which monitors the funding of terrorist groups, expressed dissatisfaction with Islamabad’s efforts to cut financial support for terrorist organizations.

In February, the FATF placed Pakistan on its grey list following inaction in regard to funding of terror groups. The country still faces the threat of relegation to the FATF blacklist alongside North Korea and Iran, unless it complies with the international agency’s recommendations.

Government sources have confirmed that groups affiliated with Hafiz Saeed, including Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD) and Falah-e-Insaniyat Foundation (FIF), which front as charities for the militant organization, have regularly been cited as the primary concern of FATF delegates.

Hafiz Saeed and his groups were designated as terrorist groups in February, when the Anti-Terrorism Ordinance 2018 was passed. However, observers note that the move was a bid by the former government to forestall FATF action ahead of a summit meeting in Paris.

A similar last-ditch effort was seen when the Securities and Exchange Commission of Pakistan released its Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Regulations in line with FATF recommendations ahead of the follow-up meeting with the terror watchdog in June.

However, with the duration of the Anti-Terrorism Ordinance lapsing, Hafiz Saeed is no longer designated as a terrorist in the country, a shortcoming that led to the US State Department admonishing Islamabad last month for its failure to follow up on the matter.

Experts now believe the video of Shehryar Afridi’s meeting with Saeed could spur another international backlash.

“This will be taken very seriously by the FATF. It will also depend on how the US is looking at the matter. It could get nasty for Pakistan,” the former secretary of Pakistan’s Ministry of Defense Production Lieutenant-General Talat Masood said.

“The government needs to urgently clarify its position. Because nobody believes Pakistan now. People know exactly what is happening in the country. The state needs to stop deceiving itself and its people,” he said.

However, Shehryar Afridi told local media the video was “two years old” and questioned the timing of its release “at a time crucial for the entire country.”

But there is skepticism about his claim, given that the MML was only formed in August last year and the fact that US sanctions discussed in the video were put in place in April this year.

Insiders within the JuD and MML have confirmed that members of the group have been asked to refrain from commenting on the matter in front of the media, and confirmed the fact that the video was old. “The video is a few months old but not two years old,” a member of the MML told Asia Times on condition of anonymity.

Meanwhile, senior JuD leader Yahya Mujahid said the video was “very old, but I can’t say how old.” He refused to comment on the video and blamed India for stirring conspiracy in Pakistan. “It’s the Indian media that has generated noise for no reason, and [the Pakistani media] is unnecessarily following their lead.”

Sources said the group’s reluctance to speak about the matter despite the minister openly vowing support for Hafiz Saeed was because its leaders were still working on future plans of action with their “backers”.

Lieutenant-General Masood maintains that the military is protecting Hafiz Saeed because that is part of the establishment’s policy to try to get militants into the ‘mainstream’ of politics, and that is the prime reason why Saeed’s groups have enjoyed impunity.

“The military has its own policy which is dominant. Whether the video is from before the election or now, it’s the military that is dictating the [mainstreaming] policy,” he said.

Interior Minister Shehryar Afridi, Asia Times 7 Comments [12/22/2018 10:40:38 AM]
Fundie Index: 7

Quote# 141659

Naked family who kidnapped neighbours ‘to save them from Armageddon’ avoid jail

Group whipped into shared hysteria believed they needed to take drastic actions because the apocalypse had arrived

A naked family who kidnapped their neighbours thinking they were saving them from the end of the world have walked free from court after a judge attributed the incident to a bizarre shared psychotic episode.

Judge Jacqueline Schaffter said the three offenders did not mean to cause their victims harm when they forced them into their car before driving off at break-neck speed during an incident November last year.

The court heard the group had whipped each other into hysteria taking part in marathon sessions of applied kinesiology, an alternative medicine claimed to diagnose various illnesses by testing the strength of muscles at a home in Alberta, Canada.

Following several days in which they barely ate and repeatedly engaged in muscle testing, the two women, a man and two teenagers, who all cannot be named for legal reasons, became convinced the apocalypse was imminent.

“It will always remain difficult for us to fully understand,” Ms Schaffter told a courtroom in the small city of Leduc on Thursday, the Toronto-based Globe and Mail reported.

“The accused all believed on the day in question that Armageddon had arrived.”

The family, who were all Jehovah’s Witnesses, began to see and hear demons after several days locked together the house, the court was told.

They eventually came to the conclusion the end of the world was taking place and decided to act to save their neighbours with such haste, four of the group did not bother putting clothes on before rushing out of the house.

Completely naked, the family then drove their SUV through their garage door before crashing it through the gate at a neighbour’s property.

They grabbed the victims – a man, his adult daughter and her six-week-old son – forcing the man into the boot of the car and putting the woman and her child in the back passenger seat.

As the car sped through red lights on the way to a nearby town, the group forced their captives to chant “Jehovah” repeatedly, the court heard.

The neighbours were able to escape the car as it slowed before jump into a passing truck. However, the family rammed the vehicle, causing their SUV to swerve into a ditch.

Everyone involved in the incident escaped unharmed, but when members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police attended, the family refused to leave their vehicle, continuing to chant.

Officers said the group displayed extreme strength and all three adults had to be shocked with a Taser several times before they could be detained.

The court heard the incident had been out of character for the family, who had no prior record of offending.

The judge accepted a joint recommendation from defence and prosecution lawyers in the case and handed the group a one-year, non-custodial sentence followed by two years of probation.

They were ordered to refrain from muscle testing in the future and receive counselling.


Some cultists, The Independent 22 Comments [12/22/2018 10:34:54 AM]
Fundie Index: 13

Quote# 141658

Here is your science evidence for the common ancestor which must have been a chimp. On the chimp side of the equation it rockets right to the top without any precursors. No proto-chimps in sight while on the human side we have all these pre human intermediaries. A whole slew of them so where are all the chimp transition forms? 98% chimp and humans are upright apes and most of the unbelievers draw no distinction between Ken Ham or ID advocates like Stephen Meyer. They are all creationists and generally despised. Well the common ancestor is still a mystery and no where to be found. if humans are evidence for the common ancestor then by the same standards are horses evidence for winged Pegasus?

dimmesdale, BaptistBoard 8 Comments [12/22/2018 10:33:14 AM]
Fundie Index: 4

Quote# 141657

"Anticipation of the Gatekeepers"



TRANSCRIPT

Presumably this is a picture of hell. Posted on the wall are the words "ABANDON HOPE".

Four doorways are labelled (with monsters in each one):

UNSAVED 1000 degrees F
TERRORISTS 2000 degrees F
ILLUMINATI 4000 degrees F
LIBERAL ACTIVIST JUDGES 10,000 degrees F (it also has the widest door).

Mick Williams, Disqus - Faith & Religion 24 Comments [12/22/2018 10:32:58 AM]
Fundie Index: 8
Submitted By: Jocasta

Quote# 141656

Today's Laugh 12-18-18



TRANSCRIPT:

Frame one: Cornered animal. (Some sort of animal is shown hissing)
Frame two: Cornered dim. (Man in a corner with arms flailing is saying the following: "50 billion is too much for a wall!" "You gave the mad mullahs 150 billion." ""Experts" say it won't work!"
Voice from offscreen says: "Homeland security says it's extremely effective." Cornered man says: "Racist! Sexist! Islamophobe! Xenophobe! Uh...Homophobe! Phobophobe!"


Mick Williams, Disqus - Faith & Religion 15 Comments [12/22/2018 10:32:32 AM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: Jocasta

Quote# 141655

Following up on Our Response

I’d encourage those of you who read this article to read the blog from The Northern Jester. It’s always good to read the opinions of others, especially so if they don’t line up with your views, and more importantly scripture. Personally, I regularly read the likes of Bart Ehrman and Elaine Pagels (and others), why? Because if we truly want to have a voice on any issue, we should have a balanced understanding of it from both sides of the fence.

Outside of my reply to the article, there isn’t too much to say here. Although I could go on for days picking apart this article, I’m not going to here. As I don’t think that’s fair to the writer. What I will say that wasn’t really mentioned in the reply I sent to the blog, is that if you are someone who wants to argue for the affirmation of homosexuality, then at least avoid the Jesus argument from silence. It’s not a good argument, as what always happens when using this is that you ignore what Jesus defines as marriage (one man and one woman) because you’re looking for Jesus uttering the word homosexual.

On that front allow me to share something I found rather recently in my research on this subject (something I’ve been doing for over 2 years now). In the gospel of Matthew, Jesus is found in many debates with the Pharisees and scribes. Chapter 15 is one such occasion, in verses 10-20 of that chapter Jesus zones in on the subject of what defiles us, where in verse 19 he says:

“For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.” – Matthew 15:19 (ESV)

Logically the person arguing for the affirmation of homosexuality may look at the citing of this verse and ask why is this verse even being brought up. It doesn’t include the word homosexuality, so Jesus can’t be including it here. However, this shows a lack of understanding of the original language the New Testament was written in, Koine Greek. See the word we translate as sexual immorality is the word porneia. Here is a quick translation of the word:

illicit sexual intercourse
adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,
metaph. the worship of idols
of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
So as we can see here, homosexuality (as well as lesbianism and beastiality) is included in the definition of porneia. Now the question to those arguing for Jesus never mentioning homosexuality during his ministry, is can you show me from this list what form (or forms) of sexual immorality Jesus is specifically mentioning and give a valid reason as to why this isn’t the case with homosexuality and lesbianism? And the answer to this question will have to be factual, not solely based on opinions.

Now, in this article, I will not be outlining what the Biblical view on this issue is, or how Christians should deal with this very important issue. That will come at another point in time. The purpose of this article is to share my response to the Northern Jester and to highlight this important question of whether or not Jesus did mention homosexuality in his ministry, which from reading the New Testament in Biblical Greek, it most certainly seems like he did.

This is a huge issue in our culture today, it will be discussed no end for a long time. This article and the Northern Jester’s blog will not change that anytime soon.

Mark Jones, Theology Review 4 Comments [12/22/2018 10:31:57 AM]
Fundie Index: 3

Quote# 141654

In the world of blogging and writing, sometimes you write an article that someone else uses as a springboard to push their opinion. Even going as far as to misquote you to allow for them to use something you’ve said to prop up their position on a particular issue.

This happened recently with an article that I wrote for Theology Review when a local North East political satire blog (read of that what you will) took upon itself to quote mine less than half a quote from our recent article on the situation revolving around Eugene Peterson in July. The situation being around a reported affirmation of gay marriage, and a retraction of Peterson’s statement on the subject.

For more on that please read our article “Getting to Grips With Eugene Peterson’s Statement on Gay Marriage”.

Due to the busyness of the summer, I haven’t been able to spend as much time working on content for Theology Review as I would like. However, last night I logged in to the website to check on a couple of things (not intending to write an article) and came across that the website had been tagged by another website in a blog post. So I went and checked it out, lo and behold, it was an article about homosexuality, where our website was subtly targeted for not being “inclusive” of people of a homosexual persuasion.

So I’ve read the article, and have responded to the article. In this article, I’m going to include my response to the blog and then post some observations about the blog.

Please note that I have removed the name of the author of the blog post at The Northern Jester.

Our Response to The Northern Jester
Hello,

First off, thanks for tagging my post in your article on this subject. It’s always nice to be tagged in a post, as it helps get a little more attention to the site.

However, let me take exception to the comment you made where you said the following:

“Or this article by the Theology Review that’s states how homosexual marriage was “not being pushed down the throats of society in 1997, whereas it is now” in which I don’t want to sound crass but the imagery just writes itself there.”

The first thing to point out here is that you take the quote out of context immediately, as the comment was addressing my observation/assumption to what Eugene Peterson meant by saying the question of whether he affirmed homosexuality or not wouldn’t have even been discussed 20 years ago. Stating that you think that “the imagery just writes itself”, is an indication of your view that this either shouldn’t be discussed or blindly accepted.

The other thing to note in the paragraph I quote you from is that you target an article found on Babylon Bee’s website. I feel as if I should let you know that Babylon Bee is a Christian satire site. So including an article that was written as a joke is not really something that would support your argument here.

It is also worth pointing out that Jesus definitely addressed the homosexual issue, he did this by expressly stating that marriage is to be between one man and one woman only as was established at creation in the garden of Eden (Matthew 19:3-5), also it is quite possible that Jesus references a tradition that was later recorded in the Genesis Rabbah, and is also noted in the Babylonian Talmud, that is that gay marriage was happening at the time of the flood (Genesis Rabbah) and had been outlawed from the time of Noah (Babylonian Talmud). This is found in Matthew 24:36-51 and Luke 17:20-37. Below are the quotes from the Babylonian Talmud and the Genesis Rabbah.

“The generation of the Flood was not blotted out of the world until they had begun writing nuptial hymns for marriages between males or between man and beast.”
Genesis Rabbah 26:5:4

“These are the thirty commandments which the sons of Noah took upon themselves but they observe three of them, namely, (i) they do not draw up a kethubah [marriage contract] document for males, (ii) they do not weigh flesh of the [human] dead in the market, and (iii) they respect the Torah.
Babylonian Talmud, Chullin 92a-b”

So as we can see there is very good reason to believe that Jesus did, in fact, address gay marriage, it just takes a lot of studying of Jewish history, tradition, and Midrash to see that. Personally, it took me a long time of studying the Bible before I came across this, so I encourage you to dig deep into this issue if you really want to have a voice on it.

However, I am not the authority here, God is, so let’s see what God says on the subject. Now because we are under the New Covenant, I’m going to focus on what the New Testament says, as the standard rule of thumb with law is that if it is noted in the New Testament in a context of whatever unlawful deed you’re referring to, still being unlawful, then we can say that in God’s eyes it is still wrong and shouldn’t be done. So here goes:

“Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” – 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

“Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.”- 1 Timothy 1:8-11

“For this reason, God gave them up to dishonourable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.” – Romans 1:26-27

Read these passages (this just a sampling from the New Testament by the way), and tell me if any of these suggest that homosexuality and gay marriage is acceptable in God’s eyes. If we’re honest with ourselves, we can’t do that, not without manipulating and twisting scripture. At least with the Jesus argument, all you’re doing is ignoring what Paul said (John also speaks on the issue in Revelation).

As Christian’s our responsibility is to side with God and follow His will and His ways, not the ways that culture wants us to follow in. Now I understand that this will at times be difficult, I mean let’s be honest wouldn’t it just be easier if everyone gets saved if everyone went to heaven. Absolutely it would. But what real glorification of God would there be in that? Very little if we’re honest. God has set the world in His order, and that is the order we are to follow. We are not to try and worm our way around God because we don’t like His rules. That’s frankly an immature way to live. What we need to do is to adjust our position and stand in line with God, easy or not.

In terms of the love aspect, I actually agree with the basic sentiment. As Christian’s we should love everyone, and welcome them in. But truly loving someone does not mean that we affirm their sin, and God clearly defines homosexuality as a sin. It’s no different to adultery, murder, lust, gluttony, or any other sin in God’s eyes. The only difference is how much pop culture is pushing this agenda, when was the last time you saw a rally for polygamy, or Ofsted checking schools performances based on their acceptance of those who desire to commit bestiality. You don’t see either of those things (yet), but the LGBTQA+ agenda is massive, so much so that organisations such as the National Trust have tried to make the endorsement of this compulsory. I’m sure that’s tolerance though, right ??

Anyways, I’ve been on a while now and this comment is getting long. But let me say that I think it’s great that you have a heart and passion for everyone being welcome in God’s house. But with the gay marriage issue, that isn’t really the point. In fact, if you think that is the point, you’re actually missing the point. The real point is that if we’re really going to be godly people, then we can’t just blindly accept what the world tells us to. God is the authority here, not you or I, or pop culture. I know who’s side I’d rather be on.

All the best,
Mark

Mark Jones, Theology Review 8 Comments [12/22/2018 10:31:45 AM]
Fundie Index: 2

Quote# 141652

Jesus was God, and one with the Creator and who existed at the time of creation. He became man in every aspect but sin and conquered sin and death which is a victory for mankind as he became truly man and opened the way for mankind to attain God/heaven.

Buddha was a man who sought enlightenment as a human. He was among the greatest humanitarians, but then there are a lot of humanitarians in history. Only being a great humanitarian does not lead to the realisation of God. They are very close to the beatific vision, but miss it as they seek enlightenment only up to the human level. For eg. Bill Gates the richest person on the earth is also a great humanitarian, but unfortunately he is an atheist like Buddha.

Nelson Fernandes , Quora 11 Comments [12/20/2018 12:36:11 PM]
Fundie Index: 7
Submitted By: Denizen

Quote# 141650

In response to a chart of which countries have the highest percentage of people who don't want neighbors of different races

Wait... why are all the top racist countries in the world non-white??

I thought white people invented racism? I thought only white people could be racist? This is all very confusing.


Lauren Southern, Twitter 16 Comments [12/20/2018 12:35:31 PM]
Fundie Index: 2

Quote# 141649

IDOL WORSHIP IS ALL AROUND, IF you don't worship God and you give undivided attention to other things Ahead of God it's considered a form of worship.

Regarding idols, the Bible says: “A mouth they have, but they cannot speak; eyes they have, but they cannot see; ears they have, but they cannot hear.” Then it adds this sobering warning: “Those making them will become just like them”—lifeless!—Psalm 115:4-8.

Idol worship is also an act of injustice. Ask yourself, ‘How would I feel if I gave my child an expensive gift and he walked away and thanked a total stranger or even a lifeless object?’ That may help you to appreciate how our Creator and Life-Giver feels when others—including lifeless idols—receive the credit and worship that are due him.—Revelation 4:11.

Think, too, how degrading it is for a human—made in God’s own image—to venerate an inanimate object! (Genesis 1:27) Concerning some who did just that, the prophet Isaiah wrote: “To the work of one’s hands they bow down, to that which one’s fingers have made. And earthling man bows down and man becomes low, and you [Jehovah God] cannot possibly pardon them.”—Isaiah 2:8, 9.
What makes false worship even more offensive to God is that it is, in reality, the worship of demons—God’s enemies. When the Israelites abandoned Jehovah for idols, “they went sacrificing to demons, not to God,” says Deuteronomy 32:17.

Then there are the more subtle forms of idolatry. Covetousness is idolatry (Col 3:5), since the object of an individual’s cravings diverts affection from the Creator and thus, in effect, becomes an idol. Instead of serving Jehovah God in faithfulness, a person can become a slave to his belly, that is, to fleshly desire or appetite, and make this his god. (Ro 16:18; Php 3:18, 19) Since love for the Creator is demonstrated by obedience (1Jo 5:3), rebellion and pushing ahead presumptuously are comparable to acts of idolatry.—1Sa 15:22, 23.

Who OR What may I ask Do You Worship???

@ Message... Lots of people Saw Jesus (bible talks about him walking around and talking to people), No Man Has Ever Seen God and Lived Exodus 33:20

Lissa, Yahoo Answers 11 Comments [12/20/2018 12:35:21 PM]
Fundie Index: 1
Submitted By: Denizen

Quote# 141647

can't believe I am wading in to this, but here goes...

I am a public defender representing mostly juveniles; including several juvenile sex offenders. I have two small children, and most of the prosecutors I work with have small children. We often discuss what we would do if we caught our kids acting out sexually. And it is a fucking quagmire.

Let me say, with some authority, that going the court route can be helpful. With the right combination of prosecutor, judge, attorney, probation officer, therapist, parents, race, socioeconomic background, and resources, there can be some real success with juvenile sex offenders. And the recidivism rates are much lower than with adults. HOWEVER, the stars do not usually align that way. Take any one of those factors out, and things can get bad really quickly.

Let's assume Josh was caught in my jurisdiction. He is 14. He had multiple victims, with multiple incidents, and some as young as 5. He is white, with involved parents, so maybe the prosecutor would not automatically jump to certifying him as an adult. But they might try. He could not go home, so unless the family could afford residential treatment, he would be in juvenile detention. His psychosexual eval (with the facts we know) would put him at a moderate to high risk level to recidivate. If he's lucky, he escapes with no felony convictions. If he's not, he gets juvenile felony convictions and the juvenile registry. He is at risk, however, for being certified as an adult, prison time (in adult prison) and the adult sex offender registry. Life over. Game over. Done. And don't forget what CPS might do with all the other kids in the home that Mom and Dad were not able to protect.

Knowing all this... what would I do? If my sweet kid did something unspeakable to my other sweet kid? I don't know. I would do everything in my power to protect both children.


llcoolbj77, The straight dope 8 Comments [12/20/2018 12:34:57 PM]
Fundie Index: 4

Quote# 141644

(Regarding Near Death Experiences and cherry-picked data on "Hellish Experiences")

Unfortunately to you, what Mr. Rawlings wrought is theological sound: Jesus said that fewer people will go to heaven than those that will go to hell! And the reason you do not see too many hellish NDE is because they are simple not allowed to return! Jesus said in the parable of the rich man in hell, that he wanted come back and preach to his brothers, but he wasn’t permitted to do so! For sure, you have already somebody whom new you and are in hell right now, praying that you will not land there! You should not rely on opinions, either yours or somebody else in regard of your eternal soul, but read and follow what the Word of God say about eternity, because the Bible is the ultimate authority on those matters, and it say that if you don’t have Jesus as your Savior you’r done! May God bless you.

Wilson Baird, Dancing Past The Dark 7 Comments [12/20/2018 12:33:48 PM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: CC

Quote# 141640

For everyone who thinks guns need more laws let me assure you with this.Criminals don’t follow the laws they break them. You cannot regulate street weapons.Just tell the truth you want all of us to be dependent on the police &government. How well did that workout for the Natives?

Kaya Jones, Twitter 12 Comments [12/20/2018 12:33:01 PM]
Fundie Index: 2

Quote# 141637

was quite disturbed by watching John Walsh describe Foley as a pedophile. The youngest person Foley is known to hit upon was 15 years old.

Lets look at what the
pages
think about Foley

"Almost the first day I got there I was warned," said Mark Beck-Heyman, a San Diego native who served as a page in the House of Representatives in the summer of 1995. "It was no secret that Foley had a special interest in male pages," said Beck-Heyman, adding that Foley, who is now 52, on several occasions asked him out for ice cream.

Another former congressional staff member said he too had been the object of Foley's advances. "It was so well known around the House. Pages passed it along from class to class," said the former aide, adding that when he was 18 a few years ago and working as an intern, Foley approached him at a bar near the Capitol and asked for his e-mail address.
The first thing to take note of is that 18 is not to old for Foley. It is quite clear that he does take an interest in post pubescent young men.

The second thing I notice is that all the pages were made aware of his interest from the gitgo. These kids aren't victims. They are not alone as prey. They had each other and the power to take him down if they wanted to but preferred not to during their time as pages.

What strikes me is that I can so identify with these kids. In my teenage years in the small town of Niagara on the Lake, Ontario, there was a wealthy eye doctor by the name of Dr Mitchell, a community benefactor to the Shaw Festival who was well known by all the teenage boys for being a queer. He hit on a lot of us. He hit on me when I was 14 or 15. To this day I do not know if the adults were aware but all us kids knew, he was a middle aged bachelor, talked "queer" and defined the concept of homosexuality for us. None of us kids that I know of, felt like victims. We reported these incidents to each other.

When I began to hear of gay bashing in general, it is these incidents which I perceived as the reason for a few hotheaded guys who felt the need for retribution.

So lets get a sense of right and wrong here. Teenage girls get hit on all the time by older men. Young is preferred for a sexual object, hence the multi billion dollar industry for the maintenance of youth. Outside the realm of sexual harrassment, there are no penalties where no physical contact has occurred.

So why should that be any different for homosexual hitting?

Foley is not a pedophile. He is however very guilty of sexual harrassment in the work place. I think we need to keep the perspective in mind.

The flying dutchman, The straight dope 10 Comments [12/20/2018 12:31:51 PM]
Fundie Index: 2

Quote# 141636

Today's Laugh 12-17-18



TRANSCRIPT:

HEADLINE - Rashida Tiaib to wear Palestinian dress at swearing in

Two people the cartoonist has labelled "DIMS":
"Wonderful dress, Miz Tiaib! Not to assign gender...I should have used the neutral "mx".
"Should I cover my head? If that's racist, forgive me."

Muslim woman (thinking to herself): "Soon, infidel scum. Soon."

Just Mat:
You caught the rank sycophantic hypocrisy of the Dims perfectly as well as the true attitude of the Islamists like this one. She very skillfully used muruna and taqiyya plus PC buzzwords to fool the brainwashed Liberals to vote for her and she had help from the vote stealing Dims to ensure she got installed as their FIRST MUSLIM "representative".

Mick Williams:
No one is laughing harder at them than the Islamists.


Mick Williams, Disqus - Faith & Religion 16 Comments [12/20/2018 12:31:43 PM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Jocasta

Quote# 141634

Two US Marine Reservists testified against the Antifa members who attacked them in Philadelphia last month, appearing in the courtroom in full uniform for a fiery testimony on Thursday morning.
Marines Alejandro Godinez and Luis Torres spoke to the court about an incident that took place on November 17 in Old City, when several Antifa members attacked the Marines, who were attending an event at a local ballroom.
The Antifa members -including suspects Thomas Massey and Tom Keenan- mistook the Marines for participants of the “We the People” rally, a conservative event that the far-left extremists mobilized to respond to.


The event’s Facebook page described the rally as a gathering for those who were “pro-good cop, pro ICE, pro-law and order, pro-life, pro-American values, pro-gun and anti-illegal immigration.” According to the Washington Post, people opposed to the rallies came from as far as New York City to denounce the gathering, with many believing that neo-Nazis would attend the event.
However, the organizers of the rally openly rejected extremists, noting that racism and violence had no place in the “pro-freedom” event.
“This event is to allow the people to make their voices heard,” they wrote on the event page. Any violence, racism, or display of hate by any group or individual is extremely prohibited. Any group or party violating these conditions will be removed from this event immediately.”
When Antifa members showed up to incite trouble with the rally members, some rally-goers felt uneasy.
“They’re calling us Nazis. But I ask you: Which side looks more like a Nuremberg rally?” Bill Heder told the Post, noting Antifa’s unruly presence. “All I heard over here was, ‘God bless the Constitution. Let’s get along.’ And the other side wants to tear our heads off.”
This was the backdrop that led to the violence against Torres and Godinez, who, according to Philadelphia Magazine, were simply innocent bystanders caught in the ideological crossfire.
According to the Marines’ testimony, they were looking at historical landmarks when Keenan approached them and asked if they were “proud.”
“We are Marines,” Godinez said.
“Are you Proud Boys?” Keenan demanded to know, referencing a right-wing group that many left-wing movements consider a “hate group,” despite the fact that the FBI does not consider them as such.
“I didn’t know what ‘Proud Boy’ meant,” Godinez recalled in court.
The Marines were then assaulted by Keenan, Massey and a group of around ten men and women, who sprayed them with pepper spray, kicked them and punched them as they referred to them as “Nazis” and “white supremacists.”
Confused as to why he was being attacked, Godinez told them that he was of Mexican descent, which resulted in Keenan referring to them as a “spic” and “wetback.”
During the assault, Godinez testified that he was maced around six times, hit in the head and kicked in the ribs, all to the chants of “f**k him up.”
“The best way I can describe it is the sound of people chanting in a soccer stadium,” Godinez told the court, also adding that Keenan was “laughing, smiling, and having a good time, while I could have died that day.”
Massey punched Torres repeatedly, according to the Marine’s testimony, to which the prosecutor argued that the Marines are much larger and in better shape than the Massey or Torres.
Godinez attempted to call 911 after the mob dispersed, but could not operate his phone due to the pepper spray. Torres ultimately called for help and both were taken to the hospital.
In terms of injuries, Godinez may need surgery and admits having trouble seeing since the attack, while Torres was never treated by medical personnel.
When the defense attorney for Keenan referred to the melee as a “tussle,” the judge snapped back, telling him “this isn’t like kids at a playground.”
Following several statements, the judge ruled that Keenan and Massey would be held for trial on felony aggravated assault and felony conspiracy charges as well as several misdemeanors. In addition to the dual charges, Keenan faces a felony charge of ethnic intimidation. The two are due in court on December 27th.

Philadelphia Mob, USMC Life 11 Comments [12/20/2018 12:30:48 PM]
Fundie Index: 6

Quote# 141632

Sorry atheist fool, but I'm a 58 year old retired doctor that's studied these topics for almost 50 years. That means my education dwarfs yours. My facts can't be debunked: Existence of God? Creation? The best example of God’s existence is his best creation: The human being. Mankind is BY FAR the most intelligent, resourceful and powerful entity in the universe, and we don't have a clue as to how to design/create the high-complexity/high function as that found in the human being, and create it from NOTHING. So whoever did design/create the human being, has intelligence, resources and power FAR BEYOND that of mankind. Only a brilliant divine God could design/create the high-complexity/high function found in the ready-to-reproduce human being, which has all the co-existent bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, pulmonic, digestive, skeletal, muscular, nervous, body (skin), etc., etc.) intertwined in symmetry and order that only a DIVINE MIND could produce. And we certainly didn’t come from the non-existent MINDLESS UNGUIDED processes of atheism (big bang, abiogenesis, evolution) that CAN’T
EVEN THINK. Also, the lies of atheism (big bang, abiogenesis, evolution) have no LIFE, INTELLIGENCE or MORALITY to give, so it’s IMPOSSIBLE that the lies of atheism (big bang, abiogenesis, evolution) are the source for LIFE, INTELLIGENCE & MORALITY. The ONLY OPTION of the source of life, intelligence and morality, is from our living, intelligent moral God. It’s not even a conversation. Atheism = shallow thinking rebellious stupidity.

NEVER has there been a KIND of animal that has produced a new anatomical feature or function to begin a new KIND of animal (evolution). "Dogs" remain "dogs" no matter how far back you go. Same with bacteria. Richard Lenski of Michigan has been breeding ecoli strains for thirty years now, he and his lab, have generated 66,000 generations of ecoli and none have changed to anything but ecoli. No lab on the planet earth has observed one bacterium, one insect or animal morphing into anything else. And not even beginning to, w/ no anatomical change whatsoever. Atheism and it's religion of evolution is easily debunked... obviously.?




James Powers, Youtube comment 17 Comments [12/20/2018 12:30:10 PM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Karana

Quote# 141627

"Denial: The Final Frontier"

Nonsense! say those upside-down folks we know as 'dims'. Yet it's only the first of ten ways they mirror the Lawless One, who seeks to undo all that was wrought by the Creator: there are more than two genders; good is bad; patriot is racist; you get the idea.

Is it not true that liberals know best? All would-be dictators do, like that ultimate one to come. The dims want to helpfully choose your leaders because you aren't smart enough.

Of hundreds of faiths, they hate only the one they reflexively call 'intolerant'. But isn't Islam intolerant? Heresy! cry the Thought Police. Violence and lawlessness are justified against those considered less than human, be they today's patriots or the Jews of Hitler's Germany. The Father of Strife finds himself in perfect agreement.

Globalism is the misguided mantra of liberal elites, drunk with money and power, those unspoken goals of socialism. They'll helpfully micromanage the lives of those who take the yoke of marginal existence. After all, somebody has to put food in stores, run power plants, and fix cars--those same who will one day wear that final globalist badge, the Mark.

If dims share a trait that protects all cultists from the truth--a closed mind--they owe their gratitude to the Father of Lies. And if the law is inconvenient, simply change the meaning of words. Yea hath God said. . . .



(TRANSCRIPT: Denial: The final frontier. These are the trials of the dims. Their seven-year mission: to seek out the Dean of Denial, to cluelessly go where no right-thinking man has gone before--into that eternal night we call...The Twilight Zone.

Mick Williams, Disqus - Faith & Religion 5 Comments [12/20/2018 12:28:17 PM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: Jocasta

Quote# 141625

The Earth is approximately 7,000 years old; the Universe has been in space longer.

pethesedzao, Grace And Truth 7 Comments [12/20/2018 12:27:39 PM]
Fundie Index: 5

Quote# 141624

Exactly but if Jesus wasn't a heterosexual man then we are all dead in our sins.

Pethesdzao, Questions About God 7 Comments [12/20/2018 12:27:33 PM]
Fundie Index: 2