Quote# 129783

Suddenly I heard someone clearing His throat in order to call attention to His presence. I looked up. Jesus was sitting in the large apricot tree. “My Lord,” I said in amazement, “what are You doing up there?”

“I am up a tree, Anna,” He said.

I laughed. “What are You doing up a tree?”

“You want Me up here,” He replied.

“I want You up a tree?” I laughed, for I thought He was joking.

“Yes,” He answered. “I am localized, and you know where I am. You can come to the base of the tree and ask Me questions, and then go about your life. I am in a portion of your heart, but I do not have free access to the whole garden.”

I was cut to the quick. I swallowed hard. “Come down, my Lord,”

I said. “Forgive me. These mysteries are so exciting. . .well, forgive me that...”

“...that you have begun to use Me?” He asked, jumping down from the tree.

“The very thing I have hated, I am doing,” I said.

He walked toward me. “What do you want of Me, Anna? Information? There is a vast supply. Is that what you want?”

“No, of course not,” I replied. “These mysteries are so...”

“...titillating?” He asked.

“Well, they are . .

“...seductive?” He added.

“Yes,” I affirmed.

“But they are part of Me—and you have been given all of Me. It seems a poor exchange.”

“Oh, my Friend,” I continued, “forgive me. I love You and want to be with You. I want You to have access to the entire garden.”

“You are called to know mysteries, Anna, but not to use Me,” He said.

To Still the Soul

I was speechless. When years before I had decided to pursue the Lord earnestly, I withdrew my senses from the overstimulation of worldly input. I felt that I needed to still my soul if I wanted Him to come knocking at my heart.

The withdrawal from keeping myself entertained with the world was exceedingly painful. But now the Lord was saying that I had replaced the worldly with spiritual entertainment—desiring more and more spiritual knowledge—a subtle and less objectionable substitute, but still a substitute for Him. I did not know what to say. I was stunned.

He took me by the arm and guided me gently to the rim of the fountain. “Sit down,” He said quietly. He sat beside me. I looked into His face. The beauty and clearness of those eyes were beyond compare. He took my hand and held it.

A True Friend

“My Anna,” He said, “be a true friend to Me, as I am to you. I want you to desire My company. I am a King, but I desire to be with you, as any lover would long to be with the one he loves. I do not command your love; I humbly ask for t. I do not dictate that you be with Me. I long for you to seek Me. Therefore I wait for you, Anna.”

I dropped my head. “Lord,” I said, “I am selfish. I am using You for my own pleasure.”

Even a King

He lifted my chin. “Anna, look at Me,” He said. “Even a King wishes to be loved for Himself, not for the gifts He bestows.” He smiled at me. “If you do not enjoy being with Me now, why do you believe you will enjoy My company for eternity?” He looked down at my hand. “The pursuer wants to be pursued also,” He said gently.

He looked up and then over to the gate. “Have you ever thought of standing at the entrance to the garden with the gate opened, waiting for Me?”

“No,” I replied.

“You have expected Me to travel the entire distance to you. Do you not think I would be pleased to have you waiting, with part of the distance covered so that we might see each other sooner?”

“Yes,” I said quietly.

He smiled at me. “Come, My love, let us walk.” He helped me to rise and put His arm around my waist. We began to walk the path that circles the garden. “I have called you to Myself;” He said looking down at me. Few understand what this means. Would you like to know, Anna?

“Yes,” I said tentatively. “I say this in fear and trembling because I fear not getting something I want.”

He laughed. “I know this. What does that say about our relationship?”

“It sounds like I do not trust You,” I said. “That is what it sounds like,” He agreed. “Is it true?”

“Yes,” He replied.

“Well, Lord, help me!” I pleaded. “I want to trust You.”

“My wonderful girl,” He said, “My love. Do you not understand? My desire is for you. My passions burn with eternal fires. No mere tear could quench them. It would take the tears from eternity, and still the fire of My passion for you would not be quenched. Why would you not trust the One who loves you as I love?”

I could not answer. I did not know why I did not abandon myself to God. I shook my head. “Who am I to deserve such love?”

“You are chosen for Me by My Father,” He said earnestly “With wisdom that is beyond wisdom, He has chosen you.”

“Then increase my desire to be with You,” I said, “to desire You more than an anointing or spiritual knowledge or...” I could not think fast enough to enumerate. I shook my head in frustration and then blurted out: “I love You.” I clung to Him, burying my face in His chest. “You are the dearest Friend I have.. . love You!”

He placed His arms around me lovingly. “My own,” He said. He dropped His head back and laughed as in pain mixed with joy. Then, bringing His head to mine, He spoke softly, “Anna, Anna.” There was great pain in His voice. “Please do not do this again.” He held me trembling. ‘Anna, do not do this again.”

I had hurt Him deeply by treating Him presumptuously, casually—like someone with whom I had to deal in order to receive that which was my primary interest. But He loved me. He wanted my company and wanted me to desire His. That which is the deepest desire of every human heart was mine, and I was seeking secondary rewards.

My heart began to break. The pain was excruciating. The garden responded also. The smell of myrrh flooded the area. I glanced at the myrrh tree. Red tears of the aromatic gum were slipping from the heart of the wood.’

I pulled back, holding Him at arm’s length, looking into His eyes. “My God, my God,” I said. “I am not worthy of You. I cannot even respond correctly to the depth of Your love. Ishi, if You do not give to me a love that matches Yours in intensity.. .“ The pain in my heart was so severe that I could not finish the sentence.’ With all that was in me I pushed past the extreme pain to cry out, “Oh, please help me to love You as You love me. I am willing, Lord, but I cannot do this myself. You must do this through me! Please!”


Anna Rountree, The Priestly Bride 8 Comments [7/27/2017 12:45:26 AM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: Denizen

Quote# 129781

NoDragQueensinGovernment • in a few seconds

Drag Queens have no business in the armed forces. The only place these confused males should be tolerated is in a gay parade. They are awkward and scary for some adults and they truly scare children. Allowing a dude in high heels, stockings and makeup to flaunt around in the military is ridiculous nonsense and I'm very happy Trump put a dead stop to this insanity

NoDragQueensinGovernment • in a few seconds

Since when has it been an "American" staple of having cross dressing drag queens, males who think they are women in soldiers uniforms? Absolutely never. It's always the actual unAmericans, trying to lecture us about what is American. You are enemies of America, there is nothing "American" about you left wing extremists, you are all allied with and support anti American maliciousness.

NoDragQueensinGovernment Messed are the Bleak • a few seconds ago

Drag queen weirdos have been banned, and plenty more disgusting left wing degeneracy will be undone through Trump's 8 years. Get used to groveling and whining on a left wing extremist website, because we aren't stopping, we are barely even warmed up.

NoDragQueensinGovernment Messed are the Bleak • in a few seconds

You are the triggered snowflakes, we are the ones triggering you weak enemies and stomping you when you are down.

NoDragQueensinGovernment Messed are the Bleak • a few seconds ago

And you say that, while hiding in a safespace behind pixels... Easy, when the threat of an enemy such as myself who has every intention of opening up your throat from ear to ear in a real encounter, isn't quite there.

NoDragQueensInGovernment, Media Matters For America 12 Comments [7/27/2017 12:43:53 AM]
Fundie Index: 2
Submitted By: DiarrheaMan

Quote# 129780

The Resurgence of the Tiger Dad: Fathers Pushing Their Daughters – for Whose Good?
by Yue Xin

The phenomenon of the ‘tiger mother’, a strict mom who pushes her children to be successful, became popular through the 2011 book Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother by Amy Chua. Recent trends seem to signal a reevaluation of the stern, disciplinary father. On social media, many wonder why these fathers are pushing their daughters, and for whose good they actually do it.

The hashtag “Chinese piano girl stuns American audiences” has occupied the top searching lists on Sina Weibo, with many users praising Anke’s talents and hard efforts.

“Having just learned to play the piano for two years and four months, Anke now is able to play the pieces of grade 10 [the highest level before the ARCT],” Chen’s father Dongzhi Chen proudly told a reporter. He determinedly expressed his goals to train Anke to be a piano master and “the second Lang Lang” to China.

This is also what Anke told NBC’s host Steve Harvey when he asked the 5-year-old about her future dreams. But later, when he asked her the question “How did you start to play?”, she replied: “Dad wanted me to.”

Since her American television adventure, Anke has returned to her tightly scheduled life that revolves around the piano. She practices 4 hours a day, takes master’s classes at the Central Conservatory of Music, goes to concerts, and has dinner with fellow piano players. In the evenings when she has dinner with her dad, he makes her watch piano concerts on the computer.

In the Pear video, Anke initially almost seems to be a carefree girl- running around her dad like a butterfly. But the video report also shows how her father continuously sternly warns and commends his daughter to “listen to your father”, stop “fiddling around,” “stop wasting time and play the piano,” or to “show a happy face.”

The video also includes a short scene where Anke goes downstairs hoping to play with some friends, only to find herself alone: “My friends have probably all forgotten about me,” she says as she silently watches other children play on the basketball field.


Subtitle: “Don’t give me a bitter face.” (Screenshot of Pearvideo.)

“It’s very possible that she will hate me in the future. But I think it is the only way to realize her life values,” Dongzhi Chen says in the video: “I know this is the hardest route for her and I’ve expected the worst. But I believe if she can play the piano well, she will be smart and successful in doing other things too.”

[...]

Being a student of conservatory of music was a dream of Chen himself, but it did not happen because Chen’s family did not have the money for it. He explains: “Therefore, I want my daughter to continue to explore the ultimate beauty of music for me.”

Chen’s story resonates with that of China’s highest-grossing Indian film Dangal (?????). In this true story, a former wrestler has the unfulfilled dream to win a gold medal for India. He swears to train his future son to achieve this dream for him. But when he only has daughters, he decides to train them instead to become India’s first female champion wrestlers.


Chinese film poster of Dangal.

The film has received much praise from Chinese audiences. The movie received the high score of 9.2 out of 10 on Douban.com, a popular Chinese reviewing website for films or books.

The great popularity of Dangal in China is not coincidental. China and India share some common cultural characteristics. Both countries attach importance to filial piety, emphasize patriotism in sports, and promote “painful education” (????). The latter is especially visible in Dangal, where the father makes his daughters get up at 5 AM every day for training and makes them cut off their long hair.

State-owned news media Xinhua recently published an article about family values that can be learned from this film. The article says: “These Indian girls had no choice of life at all. It was their father who forced them and offered them new possibilities. In the perspective of gaining skills and obtaining knowledge, education is painful and is against one’s own instinct […] Parents need to lead their children and show them the way, as they don’t have the ability to judge for themselves.”

On Sohu, a recent article that received nearly 20 million views called on Chinese parents to “form a community” with their children. It said: “The medal is a joint achievement shared by father and daughter. Studying is a process of co-operation.”

[...]

In the Pear Video interview, the reporter asks Anke’s father if he will provide his daughter with more choices in the future. He answers: “She can have many choices, but this road [that I chose for her] will be doomed to fail if that happens.”


Anke’s ‘tiger dad’: “I hope she will pursue music all her life.”

Chinese parents have a long-standing reputation for being strict, and for making huge sacrifices for their children’s education. Anke’s father is no exception; he is so determined to train a child music prodigy that he seems to be ready to deal with any hardships that might come. But why are these ‘tiger dads’ so desperate to push their daughters to become superstars?

Socio-economic reasons play a major role. According to a study by McKinsey & Company, 76% of China’s urban population will be considered middle class by 2022. With this explosive growth of the emerging middle class, many Chinese parents see education as a crucial factor to improve the social mobility of their children.

For girls, this is especially important. The traditional patriarchal culture in China has negatively affected the social status of women throughout history. In contemporary society, their roles as wives and mothers are still often prioritized once they have babies. But as an indirect consequence of China’s one child policy, daughters have come to play a more important role in the family, generally receiving more parental attention and a better education than in the decades preceding the policy.

The role of the father in being the one who makes the most important decisions on children’s education comes from a long-standing tradition. An old Chinese saying “strict father, kind mother” (????) describes parenting in traditional Chinese society, where fathers are the stern disciplinarians who have more to say about their children’s education and than the mother. The mother’s role, traditionally, was defined by the persisting idea of “men rule outside, women rule inside” (“???,???”); meaning that women should be confined to the ‘inside’ sphere of family and home, occupying themselves with the household, while men deal with the ‘outside’ world of work, finances, community, etc.

The Chinese cultural concept of ‘mianzi‘ or ‘face’ also plays an important role. Representing a person’s reputation and prestige, parents gain ‘face’ when their children succeed. An ‘unsuccessful’ child would be a father’s shame.

As Anke’s father tells Pear Video: “If she would end up with a nine-to-five job, such as working in a musical instruments store, I would consider it a failure.”

[...]

One comment, receiving the most likes, said: “If this little girl is truly happy to play the piano, and she sure seems to be very gifted and willing to do so, I don’t think there’s any reason to criticize her father.”

Others also praised Dongzhi Chen, writing: “This dad is really awesome. Anyone who has kids will know that you can never force a child to do something. The media always wants to point out [these stories about] fathers who will force their own dreams upon their children, but the fact is that if the kid doesn’t want to do it, it won’t happen – no matter how she is pushed by her dad. The reason why this girl is so good now is because of her father’s guidance and education.”

But there are also those who oppose to the father’s parenting style: “I really hate this kind of parent. It’s fine to lead or guide your kid if she excels in some areas, but I feel disgusted that he just sits there and acts like he’s the kid’s almighty God.”

Some disapprovingly say: “He already has himself, why does he need a second person like him?”

There are also commenters who say that watching Dangal has changed their outlook: “After I watched this film, my attitude towards these kind of parents has changed completely.”

Others agreed, saying: “This movie truly is an inspiration – it is an encouragement for the tiger dad (??).”

Dongzhi Chen, et. al., What's on Weibo 11 Comments [7/27/2017 12:43:41 AM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Salami

Quote# 129779

(Commenting on story "Southern Baptist-Owned LifeWay Stores Won’t Pull ‘Message Bible’ After Author’s ‘Gay Marriage’ Retraction"):

Oboehner:
The Apocrypha? That is not part of the Bible.

Sisyphus:
The scholars of the early 17th century employed by King James I included the 14 books of the Apocrypha( Latin Vulgate) in their translated works . Perhaps, further evidence the modern Christian Bible is subjective in nature possessing limited connection to objective reality.

Oboehner:
Catholic scholars in an attempt to justify praying for the dead. It is an interesting historical piece, nothing more.
Modern "translations" possess limited connection to objective reality, having to change a sizable percentage of the text to gain copyright.

Sisyphus:
Are you suggesting, copyright and intellectual property laws are at the root of modifying the word of God? AKA the work of Satan? Interesting take.
The 11th commandment: Thou shalt learn Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, and only read the original source.

Zampogna:
They were included from the beginning and separated by Martin Luther and removed completely by fanatics. Basic history 101.

Oboehner:
Basic revisionist catholic history.

Zampogna:
...right. Which is why MARTIN LUTHER separated the books. Or is he a revisionist too?

Oboehner:
The Apocrypha was NOT included in the Hebrew scriptures (which is now referred to as the Old Testament) that Christ himself used and quoted. It was added later by the RCC in an attempt to justify their unbiblical teachings. It was rejected by the Jews. It is never quoted in the New Testament at all as scripture. It is not on any early canonical lists. It was also regarded as uninspired by prominent leaders of the early church.

Zampogna:
Nope, it was right there from the beginning at the Council of Nicea.

Oboehner:
Nope, Council of Nicea was catholic.

Oboehner, Christian News Network 15 Comments [7/27/2017 12:42:05 AM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Jocasta

Quote# 129768

If you want to love God, then as Jesus said, you will keep God’s commandments. Therefore, to love God is to love what God loves and to hate what God hates. The LGBT hates God, so they love what God hates and hate what God loves.

Andrew Bieszad, Shoebat.com: Awareness and Action 20 Comments [7/26/2017 11:38:08 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Demon Duck of Doom

Quote# 129767

The extremist anti-choice group Operation Save America is making national headlines this week as it begins a week of protests aimed at shutting down the last remaining abortion clinic in Kentucky. The group has been testing the enforcement of the FACE Act, the federal law guaranteeing access to abortion clinics; 11 Operation Save America (OSA) members were arrested for blocking the doors of the Louisville clinic in May and the group has now agreed to abide by a temporary restraining order allowing access to the clinic during their protests—a decision that OSA is portraying as a victory.

OSA picked its target carefully: Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin has also been taking aim at the Louisville clinic and personally met with OSA leadership when they held a planning meeting in February. In December, OSA’s Rusty Thomas wrote to his group’s supporters that he was also planning to “meet with a Congressman who is a dear Christian brother who is serious about restoring his state in righteousness. He has graciously offered his help to OSA in establishing our comings and goings in his state.”

OSA’s goal, however, involves more than shutting down the last abortion clinic in Kentucky. The group has been urging state officials to defy federal law on abortion rights altogether and refuse to enforce the protections of Roe v. Wade in their state. The primary advocate of this strategy is Matt Trewhella, a Wisconsin activist who signed a statement in the 1990s supporting the murder of abortion providers. Trewhella is a fixture at OSA events and spoke at a press conference with Thomas this week. Thomas has said that Bevin praised Trewhella’s book about defying federal laws on abortion rights and LGBTQ equality when he met the group in February.

Speaking to Slate’s Michelle Goldberg about Trewhella’s “Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates,” Thomas said, “It just appears that Kentucky may be the first ones who take it seriously enough to cross that line and finally do their duty in the midst of this Holocaust.”

In a press conference this week, Thomas insisted that it was the Supreme Court that had broken the law by ruling in favor of abortion rights: “We are not the lawbreakers. The Supreme Court are the lawbreakers. We are the law-keepers.”

At OSA’s national event in Wichita last year, the group held a mock trial in front of a federal courthouse in which it declared Supreme Court decisions on abortion rights, LGBT equality and the separation of church and state to be “null and void” because they are “not lawful in the eyes of God.”

OSA, which grew out of the protest group Operation Rescue and has a long-running feud with the group that currently calls itself Operation Rescue, is not shy about saying what it hopes will happen if abortion is recriminalized in the U.S. Thomas wrote on Facebook earlier this year that a woman who has an abortion has committed murder and must “face justice just like any other person who commits crimes of this magnitude.” Jason Storms, an OSA member who conducted youth seminars at last year’s Wichita event, told CBS this week that “A mother who has knowingly, willingly, chosen to kill her own child out of pure selfish motives, she’s guilty as a murderer in the eyes of the law.”

Extremist anti-choice, anti-LGBTQ activist Dave Daubenmire has been streaming his daily webcast from the Louisville event. He was a featured speaker at OSA’s event in Wichita, where he declared that “the only thing standing between tyranny and liberty is a Christian, heterosexual man.”

Despite OSA’s extremism, their mission of closing the last clinic in Kentucky seems to appeal to less bombastic anti-choice groups: the large anti-choice legal group Americans United for Life tweeted about the protests this morning.

Operation Save America, Right Wing Watch 14 Comments [7/26/2017 11:37:32 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Demon Duck of Doom

Quote# 129766


What I wanted to discuss instead is where youth organisations would be without those who genuinely love children, and who can keep their hands off them. The keeping of their hands off them is important. I see very little wrong with window-shopping. Touching is a totally different matter.

Today we are prurient. We insist on knowing what others do with their genitalia. News media fantasise about what might or might not have taken place, what might or might not take place.

So where would the different youth movements, those for boys, those for girls, be without those who love children, potentially those who have fantasy liaisons with some individuals, but who never touch?

Timmy, It's Only Me From Across The Sea 10 Comments [7/26/2017 11:37:20 AM]
Fundie Index: 3

Quote# 129765


(Someone holding a sign reading:"Don't be comic conned. Your life is not fiction. Get real with Jesus.")

Anonymous, Facebook 24 Comments [7/26/2017 11:32:39 AM]
Fundie Index: 10
Submitted By: Demon Duck of Doom

Quote# 129759

[Commenting under "A good question about prison nation ... dodged"]

Maybe I can get some traction here with my ideas:

I produced the following under the basic theory that any convict chosen for rehabilitation deserves enormous resources dedicated toward that end, while those not so chosen deserve nothing more from society..

The basic plan goes as follows:

1) Upon felony conviction, of whatever level ranging from first degree murder to passing bad checks a new quasi-jury pool is chosen. These panel members, unlike the guilt jury, come from localities where the crime did not occur. Also unlike the guilt jury they are not actually convened into a sitting panel.
The size of the pool is inversely proportional to the severity of the crimes of conviction, though never falling below a minimum threshold.

2) Each member of this new pool is approached in turn, one at a time. They are not told their order within the pool. The pool member is presented facts about the convict, though some material is held back (race and name as race proxy being two that come immediately to my mind). A defense representative will be part of this process to ensure that no improper information is conveyed. If any such information is conveyed then the results of that pool member are disqualified if adverse to the convict.

3) The pool member is asked whether they wish to rehabilitate the convict. If the answer is "yes" then the convict is placed in the pool member's home in some form of legal guardianship and is once more considered to be a juvinile for legal purposes. A stipend calculated to make the convict's presense and rehabilitation financally neutral shall be paid in order to negate at least most cost-benefit analysis from the pool member's mind.

4) If all pool members say "no" the convict is placed in prison where they are given a chance for a normal set of appeals. When those appeals are exhausted the convict is executed, not for the crime of conviction, but for being considered unfit for living within society.

5) Upon completion of the term of legal guardianship, the the convict is returned to full civil status with no restrictions whatsoever on their liberty.
The only time the prior conviction can be discovered through legal means is during a subsequent penalty determination.

This system is intended for use only in felony cases, misdemeanors should be reduced strictly to incarceration/fine with no other effects outliving whatever term of probation is also given. Also no actual juvinile is to be placed in this system, though many juvinile cases make the natural parents appear as a significant issue.

I realize the distance requirements of step 1 would be far easier to acheive in the federal system and large states like California and Texas than smaller states. I believe this could be overcome by setting up some form of convict exchange. I include this step for the purpose of removing the convict from
an familiar environment, and hopefully make it at least somewhat more difficult to establish contact with whatever criminal element exists in the new location.

This system would also reduce the value of plea bargaining, the remaining options being immunity or a negotiated pool size larger than contemplated for the criminal category.

I also realize that current precident would not allow the above system to be implemented and that amendment(s) would be required to effectuate that change.

Soronel Haetir, Sentencing Law and Policy 15 Comments [7/26/2017 9:49:27 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: JeanP

Quote# 129758

To think, our Orwellian society could have had
War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength
And instead wound up with
Men can be women
Women can be men
Children can consent to sex


addendum:
DIVERSITY WILL SET YOU FREE

der-prinz-aus-stahl, Tumblr 12 Comments [7/26/2017 9:49:20 AM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: The Reptilian Jew

Quote# 129753

I will take lectures from American “conservatives” on what unhealthy or racist motivations there were for Brexit when they’ve put up with new flags, new anthems, pan-American Parliaments in Bogota & Montevideo, having laws struck down by a court in Havana, a free movement zone stretching from Anchorage to Buenos Aires and repeatedly being left with the bill for a currency union between Canada, Bolivia, Mexico and Haiti.
Please, do feel free to tell me how this is motivated by racism when you have lived under that system long enough to know what it’s like. Until then, a period of respectful silence would be appreciated.

fukuyamasutra, Tumblr 8 Comments [7/26/2017 8:11:59 AM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: The Reptilian Jew

Quote# 129751

The Anti “Halalification” Crusade of Chinese Netizens
By Manya Koetse

The “halal-ification” (????) of food products in China has been a hot issue on Chinese social media over the past two years. Discussions on the spread of halal food in China broke out again this week when food delivery platform Meituan Takeaway (????) locally introduced a special halal channel and separate delivery boxes for halal food. What especially provoked online anger was the line used by Meituan to promote its new services, saying it would “make people eat more safely” (Literally: “Using separate boxes for halal food will put your mind at ease.”)


The image of Meituan’s promotional campaign for halal food that went viral on Chinese media: “Make you eat more assured.”

Many netizens said the measure discriminates against non-Muslims. They called on others to boycott Meituan and to delete the app from their phone. In response, the topic ‘Is Meituan Going Bankrupt?’ (#????????#) received over 3.7 million views on Weibo, with thousands of netizens discussing the issue under various hashtags.

[...]

A popular Weibo imam called Li Haiyang from Henan wrote a post in March titled “Raising Awareness about Islamic Dietary Law” (“?????????????“), in which he discussed the importance of national standards on halal food in China. Li Haiyang, who is part of China’s Henan Islam Society (?????????), wrote that all Muslims should follow the classic rules and abide by their beliefs, of which Islamic dietary laws are an important part, and that the PRC cannot discriminate against Muslim ethnic groups by refusing to legally protect Muslim halal food.

At the time, the imam’s post was shared over 500 times and besides much support, it also attracted many comments strongly opposing the imam’s views. A typical comment said: “China is a secular country ruled by an atheist Party, and firmly boycotts Islamic laws!” Despite backlash, there are multiple accounts on Weibo dedicated to informing people about halal food, such as ‘China Halal Food Web’ (@??????? 3100+ fans) or ‘Halal Cuisine Web’ (@?????, 3950 fans).

[...]

In the halal food debate on Chinese social media, the term qingzhen fànhuà (????) is often used – a new term that popped up in Chinese media in 2016. It basically means ‘halal-ification’ or ‘halal generalization,’ but because qingzhen also means ‘Islamic,’ it can also imply ‘Islamization.’

And that is precisely what is at the heart of the discussion on the spread of halal food on Chinese social media: those who oppose the spread of halal food in the PRC connect the normalization of Islamic dietary laws to an alleged greater societal shift towards Islam. The spread of ‘Islam’ and ‘halal food’ are practically the same things in these discussions through the concept of qingzhen.

[...]

On Baike, Baidu’s Wikipedia-like platform, the page explaining the term qingzhen fànhuà ???? says: “The term [halalification] originally only referred to the scope of the specific diet of [Muslim] ethnic groups, and has now spread to the domains of family life and even social life beyond diet, including things such as halal water, halal tooth paste, and halal paper towels.”


Advertisement in Ningxia public transport for halal paper towels.

The Baike page explains that halal products are hyped by companies that are merely seeking to gain profits. It also says that halalification is “not good for national harmony” and “not conducive to the healthy development of Chinese Islam.”

[...]

The ‘No Halal Web’ account wrote: “This already is Muhammed’s Shanghai.” They later stated: “In the Islam world, the demands of Muslims are not as simple as just wanting a mosque, they want their environment to be Islamic/halal.”

Verified net user ‘Leningrad Defender’ (@???????, 254465 fans) posted photos of a segregated ‘halal’ checkout counter at a Jingkelong supermarket in Beijing’s Chaoyang area, wondering “is this even legal”?


‘Halal’ checkout counter at a supermarket in Beijing’s Chaoyang area.

A Weibo user named ‘The Eagle of Great Han Dynasty’ (@????001) posted a photo on July 20 showing a bag of infant nutrition from the China Family Planning Association that also has a ‘halal’ label on it. He writes:

“What is the Family Planning Committee doing? Why is this halal? This is Jilin province, are we all Muslims? What is behind this, can the Committee tell the public? This is financed through the state, the public has the right to know!”

Infant product by the Family Planning Committee that is labeled ‘halal.’

Others also responded to the photo, saying: “State-financed products should not be religious.”

[...]

One of the key arguments in the debate is not so much an opposition to halal food in itself, but an opposition to a normalization of ‘halal food’ (with the complicating factor that the Chinese qingzhen also means ‘Islamic’ and ‘clean and pure’), which allegedly discriminates against non-Muslims and increases social polarization. Many netizens said that if there are special boxes for food for Muslims, there should also be special boxes for food for Buddhists, Daoists, atheists, etc.

It is not the first time that the separation of facilities/services for Muslims versus non-Muslims triggers online discussions in China. In September last year, the introduction of special “Muslim-only” shower cabins at a Chinese university also provoked anger about alleged “Muslim privilege.”

[...]

A female netizen from Beijing wrote:

“Why are so many brain-dead people opposing Muslims these days? How does Meituan’s separation of halal food hinder you? What do you care if your yogurt is halal? If you don’t want to eat it, don’t eat it. There are plenty of people who will. Use your brain for a bit. Not all Muslims are extremists; just as not all people from the Northeast are criminals.”

[...]

One young female writer says:

“(..) Under the current national policy of protecting ethnic minorities, Muslims enjoy special privileges in the name of national unity. If this continues for a long time, the inequality inevitably will spread to other domains of society. Today it is about separate boxes for food; tomorrow it might be about separate seating areas in restaurants. And what’s next? Segregated neighborhoods? Trains? Airplanes? It might seem like a trivial matter, but if you ignore this, then those who are privileged now will go on and get greater privileges. The distancing of Muslims will only grow. I’m not saying this to alarm you. It’s self-evident that unequal benefits and the privilege of an ethnic group will eventually create conflicts between the people.”

They later say: “What we want is national unity, not religious solidarity. (..) You have your freedom of religion, which app I use is my freedom. Separate boxes and other special services will ultimately be reflected in the costs, and I do not want to pay religious tax. Luckily I have the freedom to delete this app and stop using it.”

No Halal Food, et. al., What's on Weibo 29 Comments [7/26/2017 8:10:53 AM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Salami

Quote# 129746

One can only wonder whether the judgment of God will fall on the nation of U.S.A.

The depravity of the Roman Caesars and the Roman Empire included God forbidden sexual acts, as Obama’s abominations and his ’sodomization of America’. That was one aspect of Rome’s cesspit of iniquity, with the added perversions of the Babylonian, Medo Persian, and Greek Empires, which resulted in its fall.

To all of this was added the evil of Emperor Worship, along with the abundant images of the various Caesars and the required oblations to be made, which many Christians refused to perform.

It was not only their flagrant and open sins. Nero in particular, as were others, was guilty of gross persecution and making martyrs of innumerable Christians, particularly from A.D.64-A.D.68. This shedding of innocent blood was not unnoticed by God.

Tacitus, that great Roman historian has recorded an account of the depths of Rome’s evil and depravity.

Gibbon, the 18th century English author of ‘The Fall And Decline Of The Roman Empire’, attributed it to the homosexuality, lesbianism and similar depravities as those of the guilty Obama.

It is evident it contributed greatly to the fall of Rome, on consideration of the Caesar’s and Rome’s rampant homosexuality, same sex marriages even of Nero’s to a boy in the dress of a woman and on it goes. The Book of Revelation reveals that judgment fell on Rome. She did fall, that evil Babylon, the Scarlet Woman.

Will America find its end in like manner. The reproach she has allowed to fall upon her could have this result. Will the hoped for ‘God bless America’ eventuate in a curse she has brought upon herself.

Irene Bonney Faulkes, Real Jew News 15 Comments [7/26/2017 8:09:25 AM]
Fundie Index: 7
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 129744

Krystle Nichols hoped to avoid diving into arguments centered around a Kalkaska leader’s Facebook activity but quickly found her business immersed in the debate.

[...]

Nichols berated Sieting while the room listened and at least six members of the group Great Lakes Three Percenters — a group that states its purpose is to protect Americans’ constitutional rights — patrolled outside, armed with assault rifles, pistols and bullet-proof vests. Group members reported to Kalkaska after hearing rumors and threats that never developed, according to Gary Howell, a member of the group from Zeeland.

Sieting said he was unfamiliar with the group and continued refusing to apologize for his Facebook activity.

He shared his post that called for the killing of “every last Muslim” for historical reasons, Sieting said. He blamed unknown opponents’ “malice intent” in looking for something on his Facebook page they could use to “inflict damage” on him.

Jerrica Temple, a village resident, said the recent attention was an attack on his First Amendment rights.

“They’re not attacking what he’s saying, they’re attacking his freedom of speech,” she said, agreeing with his anti-Islamic post. “I support Jeff wholeheartedly.”

[...]

Joyce Golden, a county resident, fears the impacts the argument is having on the village. She joined others who wore shirts asking for prayers for Sieting and President Donald Trump. She wanted to show Sieting support and hopes to see the arguments subside so business can go back to normal.

Kalkaska, MI village President Jeff Sieting and village residents, Traverse City Record-Eagle 12 Comments [7/26/2017 5:13:38 AM]
Fundie Index: 7
Submitted By: A'isha

Quote# 129743

[Video Description]

Since the first family was micro-Chipped in 2001, there has been a huge campaign to promote and condition society to accept the human micro-chip implants. In 2004 the FDA approved the RFID micro-chip for safe human implantation and ever since then the idea has become more and more accepted.

Believe it or not, the Vatican has decided to use the micro-chip technology to track it's clergy and employees also. wow.

The US Government desperately wants to pass a Law forcing all Americans to be Micro-Chipped by March of 2013. Although that Law temporarily failed, it is certain that in the near future you will be arrested if you refuse to be micro-chipped. Our government, a newly formed dictatorship, will find a way to make it happen.

We might as well have implanted micro-chips, the way we are treating people. They are using palm scanners at schools and chipping the police already. Children are getting expelled from school for not wearing the micro-chips on their bodies so that they can be tracked. Why would the FDA approved a drug that contains a tiny micro-chip inside it, meanwhile the government is trying to illegally FORCE vaccines on the public.

Other Countries and local states are already Micro-Chipping their government officials and making it ILLEGAL to use Cash. Italy and Louisiana have already made it illegal to use cash for simple purchases. Sweden wants to end the use of cash also. Even our retail companies like JCPenny will not be accepting CASH anymore. They are even starting to detain people at highway Toll Booths now for using cash to pay the toll.

There are many companies that will not hire you if you're not micro-chipped for security purposes. If you want to work, buy or sell anything at all, you will be required to have a micro-chip implant in the very near future.

Entire Governments in Other Countries are forcing the RFID BIO-CHIP on their top official. World Leaders are now calling for the widespread mandatory use of this technology. It will be Enforced Eventually by a World Dictator for everyone, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive as his ID Mark on their Right Hand or Forehead. Don't think that you can hide from this. The military is making thousands of tiny insect size "Spy Drones" and "robots" that can run faster than humans to hunt us down.

TOP TRUTHS, Youtube 16 Comments [7/26/2017 5:12:13 AM]
Fundie Index: 6

Quote# 129742

“What do I do?” I asked.
“Wait, Anna,” my Father said.
There was silence in heaven. It was as though everything held its breath. Everyone in the throne room was silent. Gradually, with a gentle, pleasant breeze, the garment moved toward me. I held out my arms as if someone were going to help me put on a coat. The mantle was shimmering. It was like breath. As I slipped into it, however, I realized that I became transparent, invisible in certain areas. The only parts of me that could be seen were my hands, my feet, and my head.°
Before I could think about this further, Jesus said to me, “Anna, take these.”
“What are they?” I asked.

The Shoes
“Shoes of porpoise,” he said.’ I felt this was a play on the word “purpose,” but I did not know why.
I looked at them. They too were gossamer. They laced up the front like high-top work shoes that covered the ankle, but there were no soles in the shoes. “They have no soles,” I said.
Jesus smiled, “No, the Godhead is to be the expression of the soul.” (He seemed to enjoy His pun.) “These shoes keep your feet naked, touching the holy ground above, but leave you unjustified before mankind. You will be invisible to man but intimate with God. These cover the ankle and the heel also. Invisibility will work the cross in your life to the point that there will be no exposed heel nor any strength in the natural man displayed.”

I sat on the sea of glass to put them on. “These are the strangest shoes I have ever seen,” I said.
“Yes,” Jesus answered. “Few want to wear them. They are out of style.”
“Will they stay on?” I laughed.
“Yes, unless you yourself take them off. You can expose your walk before mankind, but there will be no life in it. The worm of death will crawl in and out of that exposure, Anna.”° Then He asked, “Can you walk in the fire of invisibility that mankind will not give you glory? Few alive today will wear these shoes, for they want their glory from mankind instead of God.”’
I finished lacing the shoes and stood. The tops of my feet were invisible. “Lord,” I asked seriously, “am I going to be able to do this?”
“No,” He smiled, “but I will, if you will let Me.”
I searched His face. “I believe,” I said softly. “Help my unbelief.”

A Burning Flame of Love
Suddenly, the throne became a towering column of fire, roaring louder than any forge on earth. I involuntarily stepped backward, for the fire seemed hotter than the furnaces that melt iron ore into molten magma.
“Anna:’ my Father said with a voice of thunder, “can you live within the fire?”
“Father,” I said hesitantly, “I cannot wish for painful experiences, but I can wish for You. Give me the grace to desire You more than life itself.”
Huge hands of fire reached out to me. “Come,” He said.
With a big gulp, I began to move forward slowly.
Jesus took my hand. “I will go with you,” He said gravely.
Suddenly, when Jesus took my hand, my yearning for my Father grew more intense. I began crying out in my desire for more of Him: “Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy!” As I began to call to Him, it was as though God opened Himself with a great, silent cry or hunger on His part to have me closer also. It was as though we were instantly sucked into Him.
We were standing amid coals that were white from the intense heat. I too began to heat up. The light was so bright that I could barely see Jesus for the glory within the blazing, white haze.

Anna Rountree,  Divine Revelation Of Opened Heavens 13 Comments [7/26/2017 5:12:09 AM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: Denizen

Quote# 129741

Others have spoken out harshly about the proposal [to build an adaptive facility for people with disabilities on Miami Beach], arguing that people with disabilities should be in a pool, not the ocean, that having them in the water would be a liability to the city, and that the facility would limit the public’s access to the beach.

“My specific concern is that we are benefiting special interests and limiting the right of the general public to use the beach and the park,” said resident Diana L. Rodriguez at a public hearing in April.

The tone of the debate has offended those who want to see people with disabilities have easier and more frequent access to the ocean. Conversely, they feel the facility will make the beach more inclusive, so the disabled and able-bodied can enjoy the ocean together.

“I think [their arguments] are just completely silly,” said Susan Solmon, a podiatric physician and clinical pharmacist who has benefited from the adaptive beach days. “They are made by people who are scared of something that they don’t know. I would encourage them to come out and be part of an adaptive beach day.”

Diana L. Rodriguez, Miami Herald 16 Comments [7/26/2017 5:11:41 AM]
Fundie Index: 4

Quote# 129740



Eric Hovind, Eric Hovind's Facebook page 29 Comments [7/26/2017 5:11:22 AM]
Fundie Index: 12
Submitted By: The Reptilian Jew

Quote# 129736

Kevin Swanson, a homeschooling activist and radio host who last year hosted three GOP presidential candidates at a forum in Iowa, devoted his radio program on July 12 to complaining that Christians are merely trying to change public schools rather than abolishing them altogether.

Swanson invited Kevin Novak, the author of “Abolition: Overcoming the Christian Establishment on Education,” to discuss the issue, and the two concluded that it would be best if the public school system were to collapse and be replaced by a system run by conservative Christians that would give everybody “more freedom.”

“Academically, the educational system’s turned into a really, really, really big joke,” Swanson said. “It seems to me it’s gonna fall on its own weight, so I’m not sure we are going to have to bring about the fall of Jerusalem or the fall of the public schools here. It seems to me that this thing’s gonna fall on its own weight.”

Novak responded, “Well, I think, let it happen, you know? If Christians really believe the Scriptures, then we’re gonna be the ones to reconstruct society. We’re gonna be the ones with the answers, and that’s already happening.”

Novak claimed that when he ran a homeschooling group, non-Christians would ask his group for help and for “answers” regarding education.

“We Christians have the answers, and for those Christians out there—a lot of them are in the homeschool community—I know that there are issues with homeschooling and private Christian schools, but I like to think that we’re part of the solution and not the problem, we’re at least trying,” Novak said.

Novak continued, “But we’re the ones with the answers, and we’re the ones that are going to save liberals from themselves because liberals actually have more freedom when Christians are in charge than when their own people are in charge, and let’s let the civil government school system collapse.”

Novak warned that upon the public school system’s collapse, Christians must be prepared to call for “…less law and less taxation, less regulation, and complete autonomy to be able to educate in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.”

Kevin Swanson, Right Wing Watch 23 Comments [7/25/2017 3:01:56 PM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: Kuyohashi

Quote# 129735

A Florida youth pastor charged with the cold-case murder of one teen and the sexual abuse of others wants his guns back while he awaits trial.

Ronnie Hyde pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder and child pornography charges in March related to the 1994 slaying of 16-year-old Fred Laster, whose dismembered body was found in a Dumpster.

Laster’s decapitated torso was found behind a trash bin near Lake City, but the remains went unidentified until a DNA test in 2015 matched the slain teen to his twin sister.

Police said the 61-year-old Hyde befriended the runaway teen more than two decades ago as youth pastor at Strength for Living Church in Yulee, prosecutors said.

Investigators strongly suggested they suspect Hyde — who had been a counselor at Crosswater Community Church in Nocatee up to his arrest — is a suspect in other unsolved cases by plastering his face on eight billboards seeking information in the Jacksonville area.

New court documents show that prosecutors are also gathering evidence in two additional sex abuse cases dating back to the early 1990s.

A man came forward after Hyde’s arrest in March and said the former youth pastor had mentored him as a runaway in 1992, brought him to his house, used the guns to impress him, showed him pornography and sexually abused him.

Hyde’s attorneys are seeking the return of some of the evidence — including a Toyota Scion, firearms, guitar equipment, a cell phone and a wallet — gathered from the former church leader’s home, which was demolished in May as a biohazard.

FBI agents who raided the home found multiple code violations, such as no running water and a bathtub used as a toilet.

Prosecutors said they’re willing to return Hyde’s car, wallet and music equipment, but not the smart phones or guns.

The city held no condemnation proceedings on the home, and a demolition permit was issued at the request of a Hyde family attorney as part of a property sale to a new owner.

Defense attorneys want Hyde, who had previously been named in an international child exploitation case, to be tried separately on the murder and child pornography charges.

Hyde, who is due back in court next month, remains jailed without bond.

Ronnie Hyde, Raw Story 17 Comments [7/25/2017 3:01:45 PM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: Demon Duck of Doom

Quote# 129729

On his radio show yesterday, right-wing pastor and Virginia Republican politician E.W. Jackson claimed that people who prefer to be referred to with the gender neutral pronouns “they/them” do so because they are under the “possession” of “multiple demons.”

“This whole thing of going to a plural pronoun,” Jackson said, “to me, it is a subconscious spiritual admission of demon possession by multiple demons.”

“The only single individual I’m familiar with who spoke from the plural pronoun was Legion,” Jacking said, referring to an incident in the New Testament in which Jesus cast demons out of a possessed man.

“Who is the ‘they’ in there?” Jackson asked rhetorically. “We know who the ‘they’ in there is: a bunch of devils.”

Jackson condemned the “transgender toolkits” that have been provided to many teachers in the hope that classrooms can better accommodate students who do not identify with the gender binary, saying that these schools “don’t need a transgender tool kit” but instead need “a whole army of exorcists to cast all those demons out of people who are pushing this mess.”

E.W. Jackson, Right Wing Watch 17 Comments [7/25/2017 2:56:57 PM]
Fundie Index: 8
Submitted By: Demon Duck of Doom

Quote# 129724

The problem is, witchcraft is not fantasy; it is a sinful reality in our world.

Unknown, Christian Answer  20 Comments [7/25/2017 2:17:35 PM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: P.E.T.F

Quote# 129722

North Korea claims Kumdang-2 vaccine cures MERS, AIDS, Ebola and 'harm from the use of computers'

North Korea claims it has developed a vaccine that can cure and prevent MERS, Ebola and AIDS, as well as a range of other diseases, state news agency KCNA reports.

The Kumdang-2 vaccine is reportedly able to treat everything from AIDS to tuberculosis and cancer, as well as "harm from the use of computers" and morning sickness, according to the drug's website.

Developed by North Korea's Pugang Pharmaceutic Company - and promoted under the tag line "Everyone has the right to be healthy" - the vaccine is made of extracts from ginseng with the injection of rare earth elements, KCNA said.

"The Kumdang-2 injection, a strong immune activator, which is produced in DPRK, is very effective in curing diseases caused by malignant viruses such as SARS, Ebola and MERS," the report said.

The impoverished communist state, known to have a weak health infrastructure, claims to have been testing this cure-all drug since 1989, and has previously trumpeted the efficacy of the drug.

South Korea is currently battling with an outbreak of MERS, which has killed 24 people while 166 cases have been confirmed - the largest outbreak of the disease outside Saudi Arabia.

North Korea has taken drastic measures in the past to guard against viral diseases, and last year imposed a four-month ban on foreign tourists, purportedly due to concern at the spread of the Ebola virus.

It has recently intensified screening and vowed watertight measures at the international airport and at border crossings to ward off the MERS virus.

North Korea, ABC 20 Comments [7/25/2017 10:57:31 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 129719

Torture vs. Dust Specks

"What's the worst that can happen?" goes the optimistic saying. It's probably a bad question to ask anyone with a creative imagination. Let's consider the problem on an individual level: it's not really the worst that can happen, but would nonetheless be fairly bad, if you were horribly tortured for a number of years. This is one of the worse things that can realistically happen to one person in today's world.

What's the least bad, bad thing that can happen? Well, suppose a dust speck floated into your eye and irritated it just a little, for a fraction of a second, barely enough to make you notice before you blink and wipe away the dust speck.

For our next ingredient, we need a large number. Let's use 3^^^3, written in Knuth's up-arrow notation:

• 3^3 = 27.
• 3^^3 = (3^(3^3)) = 3^27 = 7625597484987.
• 3^^^3 = (3^^(3^^3)) = 3^^7625597484987 = (3^(3^(3^(... 7625597484987 times ...)))).

3^^^3 is an exponential tower of 3s which is 7,625,597,484,987 layers tall. You start with 1; raise 3 to the power of 1 to get 3; raise 3 to the power of 3 to get 27; raise 3 to the power of 27 to get 7625597484987; raise 3 to the power of 7625597484987 to get a number much larger than the number of atoms in the universe, but which could still be written down in base 10, on 100 square kilometers of paper; then raise 3 to that power; and continue until you've exponentiated 7625597484987 times. That's 3^^^3. It's the smallest simple inconceivably huge number I know.

Now here's the moral dilemma. If neither event is going to happen to you personally, but you still had to choose one or the other:

Would you prefer that one person be horribly tortured for fifty years without hope or rest, or that 3^^^3 people get dust specks in their eyes?

I think the answer is obvious. How about you?

Eliezer Yudkowsky, LessWrong 25 Comments [7/25/2017 9:20:31 AM]
Fundie Index: 7
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 129718

("Roko's Basilisk")

Solutions to the Altruist's burden: the Quantum Billionaire Trick

Prerequisite concepts: Non-technical Introduction to the AI Deterrence Problem, And the winner is: Many-Worlds!

Followup to: The Altruist's Burden

One way to overcome the Altruist's burden problem is to stop being an altruist, to re-frame your impulses to help distant others as a bias rather than a preference. In the case of existential risks, there are additional reasons for doing this: firstly that the people who are helping you are the same as the people who are punishing you. (This is not the case for aid to the developing world). This is not an option that I personally like.

Another perfectly valid reaction is to just take the hit and accept that you will be taken advantage of as an altruist, but that it is worth it. This is also not an option that I personally like.

In this vein, there is the ominous possibility that if a positive singularity does occur, the resultant singleton may have precommitted to punish all potential donors who knew about existential risks but who didn't give 100% of their disposable incomes to x-risk motivation. This would act as an incentive to get people to donate more to reducing existential risk, and thereby increase the chances of a positive singularity. This seems to be what CEV (coherent extrapolated volition of humanity) might do if it were an acausal decision-maker.[1] So a post-singularity world may be a world of fun and plenty for the people who are currently ignoring the problem, whilst being a living hell for a significant fraction of current existential risk reducers (say, the least generous half). You could take this possibility into account and give even more to x-risk in an effort to avoid being punished. But of course, if you're thinking like that, then the CEV-singleton is even more likely to want to punish you... nasty. Of course this would be unjust, but is the kind of unjust thing that is oh-so-very utilitarian. It is a concrete example of how falling for the just world fallacy might backfire on a person with respect to existential risk, especially against people who were implicitly or explicitly expecting some reward for their efforts in the future. And even if you only think that the probability of this happening is 1%, note that the probability of a CEV doing this to a random person who would casually brush off talk of existential risks as "nonsense" is essentially zero.

A more exciting (and to my mind more preferable) way to overcome the problem is to quickly become so rich that you can turn charity into business by single-handedly changing the faces of high-impact industries. Elon Musk is probably the best example of this. I swear that man will single-handedly colonize mars, as well as bringing cheap, reliable electric vehicles to the consumer. And he'll do it at the same time as making even more money. The key to this tactic is scale. You can't contribute 0.00002% of the effort to colonize space or mitigate existential risks and reap 0.00001% of the reward: you get 0 or even negative reward if your contribution is below some threshold.

The quantum billionaire trick

But how can an individual do an Elon Musk job on existential risk? Not everyone is a good enough entrepreneur to drop out of grad school and come out with a $300 million startup before their classmates even have PhDs. Well, there is another way to make $300,000,000. Start with $30,000, and using a quantum random number generator, gamble it on the forex markets at a 10,000:1 ratio. Then in the branches where your gamble pays off, start an AGI company, hire the best people and build an FAI yourself. You could hire existing existential risk charities as consultants when you required their services. You can increase your chance of success in at least some branches by tossing a quantum coin to make key decisions. You could take, say, 50% of the universe for yourself and donate the other 50% to humanity. In your half, you can then create many independent rescue simulations of yourself up to August 2010 (or some other date), who then get rescued and sent to an optimized utopia.

You can also use your resources to acausally trade with a CEV-like singleton that might otherwise punish you for being a partial x-risk reducer, as mentioned before.

You can also use resources to acausally trade [2] with all possible unfriendly AIs [3] that might be built, exchanging resources in branches where you succeed for the uFAI sparing your life and "pensioning you off" with a tiny proportion of the universe in branches where it is built. Given that unfriendly AI is said by many experts to be the most likely outcome of humanity's experiment with AI this century, having such a lifeboat is no small benefit. Even if you are not an acausal decision-maker and therefore place no value on rescue simulations, many uFAIs would be acausal decision-makers. Though it seems to me that most people one-box on Newcomb's Problem, and rescue simulations seems decision-theoretically equivalent to Newcomb.

A win-win solution

What I like most about this option is that it is a win-win interaction between you and the rest of humanity, rather than a lose-win interaction. Humanity benefits by having a much higher chance of survival in 1 in 10,000 of the branches of the wavefunction, and you benefit by getting the lifeboat, removing the possibility of punishment and getting the rescue simulations. It also avoids the bitterness inherent in the first option, and the sucker-ness inherent in the second. That nobody thought of win-win solutions to existential risk before may be a testament to zero-sum bias.

1: One might think that the possibility of CEV punishing people couldn't possibly be taken seriously enough by anyone to actually motivate them. But in fact one person at SIAI was severely worried by this, to the point of having terrible nightmares, though ve wishes to remain anonymous. The fact that it worked on at least one person means that it would be a tempting policy to adopt. One might also think that CEV would give existential risk reducers apositive rather than negative incentive to reduce existential risks. But if a post-positive singularity world is already optimal, then the only way you can make it better for existential risk-reducers is to make it worse for everyone else. This would be very costly from the point of view of CEV, whereas punishing partial x-risk reducers might be very cheap.

2: Acausal trade is somewhat speculative: it is the idea that you can influence causally disconnected parts of the multiverse by doing simulations of them. A simpler explanation of how you can affect a uFAI in this way is to think about Nick Bostrom's Simulation Argument from the point of view of the uFAI. If you historically played a quantum lottery that definitely paid off in some branches of the wavefunction, then the uFAI will assign some probability to being in a simulation run by you, if that is what you pre-committed to doing (and if you actually follow through on your precommitment: the uFAI can test this by simulating you).

3: This idea is in part due to Rolf Nelson's idea of using the simulation hypothesis to acausally trade with uFAIs.Read his blog to find out more.

Roko, LessWrong (reproduced on Rational Wiki) 8 Comments [7/25/2017 9:20:25 AM]
Fundie Index: 2
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep